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Next: someone moved my post
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External
Since: Feb 2, 2009
Posts: 1
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:55 pm
Post subject: Problems diagnosing system freezing
Archived from groups: microsoft>public>windowsxp>hardware (more info?)
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I have an older computer with a Pentium 4 chip, P4S8X ASUS motherboard
and 512k of DDR 333 RAM. After many years of faithful and flawless
service this senior citizen has begun freezing randomly. Sometimes I can
immediately reboot it and it will run for as long as 48 hours before
locking up again. On other occasions the reboot will not even get to the
Post screen and I have to wait for minutes to hours before a successful
reboot.
Of course, hardware is the primary suspect starting with the CPU which I
suspected might be overheating. However, all the fans are in working
order and the lockups are not consistent with overheating. As I
mentioned, the machine can run for as long as 48 hours before dying.
Additionally, I have been able to occasionally reboot it immediately
after locking up even though the computer had been running for many
hours. I've run a number of hardware diagnostic utilities and all
pronounce the system as healthy.
There is one additional bit of information that might be a clue to
brighter minds than mine: I have a stick of DDR 400 RAM (also 512k) that
I used to replace the incumbent stick as a test. Every time I make the
switch, regardless of the time lag before the freeze-up and the reboot
(minutes or days), the PC successfully posts and begins to launch
Windows. Unfortunately, Windows returns error messages about system
files missing or corrupted. When I put the 333 RAM back and the reboot
makes it past the post, Windows loads up just fine.
It seems that the culprit is the RAM, but a few techs I've spoken to
blame the motherboard. I'd like to give the DDR 400 RAM a shot to
determine if it's RAM or motherboard that's bad, but don't understand
why Windows won't load. Could the 400 RAM also be bad? Is it normal and
customary for Windows to be so sensitive to different RAM? Would repair
or re-install help with the 400 RAM?
Thanks for you help
Casian |
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External
Since: Nov 27, 2008
Posts: 18
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:21 pm
Post subject: RE: Problems diagnosing system freezing
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Either way 512mb of ram is a min. amount for xp,768 or 1024mb will help.
Also,some boards will only run on dual-sided memory,single sided simply
doesnt work right,+ if running two or more sticks,both should be of the same
type (dual or single)...Also,to test memory,run the memory tester,get it at:
[URL="http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp"]http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp[/URL]
"Casian Moscovici" wrote:
> I have an older computer with a Pentium 4 chip, P4S8X ASUS motherboard
> and 512k of DDR 333 RAM. After many years of faithful and flawless
> service this senior citizen has begun freezing randomly. Sometimes I can
> immediately reboot it and it will run for as long as 48 hours before
> locking up again. On other occasions the reboot will not even get to the
> Post screen and I have to wait for minutes to hours before a successful
> reboot.
>
> Of course, hardware is the primary suspect starting with the CPU which I
> suspected might be overheating. However, all the fans are in working
> order and the lockups are not consistent with overheating. As I
> mentioned, the machine can run for as long as 48 hours before dying.
> Additionally, I have been able to occasionally reboot it immediately
> after locking up even though the computer had been running for many
> hours. I've run a number of hardware diagnostic utilities and all
> pronounce the system as healthy.
>
> There is one additional bit of information that might be a clue to
> brighter minds than mine: I have a stick of DDR 400 RAM (also 512k) that
> I used to replace the incumbent stick as a test. Every time I make the
> switch, regardless of the time lag before the freeze-up and the reboot
> (minutes or days), the PC successfully posts and begins to launch
> Windows. Unfortunately, Windows returns error messages about system
> files missing or corrupted. When I put the 333 RAM back and the reboot
> makes it past the post, Windows loads up just fine.
>
> It seems that the culprit is the RAM, but a few techs I've spoken to
> blame the motherboard. I'd like to give the DDR 400 RAM a shot to
> determine if it's RAM or motherboard that's bad, but don't understand
> why Windows won't load. Could the 400 RAM also be bad? Is it normal and
> customary for Windows to be so sensitive to different RAM? Would repair
> or re-install help with the 400 RAM?
>
> Thanks for you help
>
> Casian
> |
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External
Since: Dec 6, 2008
Posts: 36
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:20 am
Post subject: Re: Problems diagnosing system freezing
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Casian Moscovici" wrote in message
>I have an older computer with a Pentium 4 chip, P4S8X ASUS motherboard and
>512k of DDR 333 RAM. After many years of faithful and flawless service this
>senior citizen has begun freezing randomly. Sometimes I can immediately
>reboot it and it will run for as long as 48 hours before locking up again.
>On other occasions the reboot will not even get to the Post screen and I
>have to wait for minutes to hours before a successful reboot.
>
> Of course, hardware is the primary suspect starting with the CPU which I
> suspected might be overheating. However, all the fans are in working order
> and the lockups are not consistent with overheating. As I mentioned, the
> machine can run for as long as 48 hours before dying. Additionally, I have
> been able to occasionally reboot it immediately after locking up even
> though the computer had been running for many hours. I've run a number of
> hardware diagnostic utilities and all pronounce the system as healthy.
>
> There is one additional bit of information that might be a clue to
> brighter minds than mine: I have a stick of DDR 400 RAM (also 512k) that I
> used to replace the incumbent stick as a test. Every time I make the
> switch, regardless of the time lag before the freeze-up and the reboot
> (minutes or days), the PC successfully posts and begins to launch Windows.
> Unfortunately, Windows returns error messages about system files missing
> or corrupted. When I put the 333 RAM back and the reboot makes it past the
> post, Windows loads up just fine.
>
> It seems that the culprit is the RAM, but a few techs I've spoken to blame
> the motherboard. I'd like to give the DDR 400 RAM a shot to determine if
> it's RAM or motherboard that's bad, but don't understand why Windows won't
> load. Could the 400 RAM also be bad? Is it normal and customary for
> Windows to be so sensitive to different RAM? Would repair or re-install
> help with the 400 RAM?
>
> Thanks for you help
>
> Casian
First off, inspect the mobo carefully and have a look at the capacitors...
if any of them are swollen or leaky...go no further. If that's the case, you
will need a new mobo.
If all the capacitors look fine..then chances are it's a RAM problem.
The RAM stick that gives the errors...is bad for sure...you might as well
toss it.
OTOH: Even if your other stick passes a RAM test...it could still be
bad...or marginal enough to cause problems.
If the mobo looks OK then I'd just go out and get a new stick of RAM...
it's quite reasonably priced today and a 1 gig stick would not cost much >> Stay informed about: Problems diagnosing system freezing |
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External
Since: Feb 3, 2009
Posts: 1
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:31 am
Post subject: Re: Problems diagnosing system freezing
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Casian Moscovici wrote:
> I have an older computer with a Pentium 4 chip, P4S8X ASUS motherboard
> and 512k of DDR 333 RAM. After many years of faithful and flawless
> service this senior citizen has begun freezing randomly. Sometimes I can
> immediately reboot it and it will run for as long as 48 hours before
> locking up again. On other occasions the reboot will not even get to the
> Post screen and I have to wait for minutes to hours before a successful
> reboot.
>
> Of course, hardware is the primary suspect starting with the CPU which I
> suspected might be overheating. However, all the fans are in working
> order and the lockups are not consistent with overheating. As I
> mentioned, the machine can run for as long as 48 hours before dying.
> Additionally, I have been able to occasionally reboot it immediately
> after locking up even though the computer had been running for many
> hours. I've run a number of hardware diagnostic utilities and all
> pronounce the system as healthy.
>
> There is one additional bit of information that might be a clue to
> brighter minds than mine: I have a stick of DDR 400 RAM (also 512k) that
> I used to replace the incumbent stick as a test. Every time I make the
> switch, regardless of the time lag before the freeze-up and the reboot
> (minutes or days), the PC successfully posts and begins to launch
> Windows. Unfortunately, Windows returns error messages about system
> files missing or corrupted. When I put the 333 RAM back and the reboot
> makes it past the post, Windows loads up just fine.
>
> It seems that the culprit is the RAM, but a few techs I've spoken to
> blame the motherboard. I'd like to give the DDR 400 RAM a shot to
> determine if it's RAM or motherboard that's bad, but don't understand
> why Windows won't load. Could the 400 RAM also be bad? Is it normal and
> customary for Windows to be so sensitive to different RAM? Would repair
> or re-install help with the 400 RAM?
>
> Thanks for you help
>
> Casian
To see if RAM is the culprit, download MemTest86 and let it run for a
few passes. [URL="http://www.MemTest.com"]www.MemTest.com[/URL]
When a MoBo dies, the most common culprit is capacitors on the MoBo.
You may want to remove and examine the board for caps that have leaked.
But my first choice is still overheating. Now that you have checked the
fans, check the filters to make sure they are not clogged. And, clean
out the heatsinks -- esp. the CPU heatsink. On my P4C800ED, I used
MBMv5 (no longer supported) to monitor the CPU (etc.) temps in realtime;
when the CPU temp got close to 65°C under full load, I shut down and
cleaned fans & filters & heatsinks, which reduced the full load temp by
~10°C. For a good CPU load, I suggest Prime95, which bumped the CPU
temp on my P4 by well over 10°C.
If not RAM/MoBo/overheating, what's left is pretty much the Power
Supply. Most PSs are really cheap, and also inexpensive.  >> Stay informed about: Problems diagnosing system freezing |
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External
Since: Jan 31, 2009
Posts: 3
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:04 am
Post subject: Re: Problems diagnosing system freezing
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Casian Moscovici" wrote in message
>I have an older computer with a Pentium 4 chip, P4S8X ASUS motherboard and
>512k of DDR 333 RAM. After many years of faithful and flawless service this
>senior citizen has begun freezing randomly. Sometimes I can immediately
>reboot it and it will run for as long as 48 hours before locking up again.
>On other occasions the reboot will not even get to the Post screen and I
>have to wait for minutes to hours before a successful reboot.
The problem with intermidiate shutdowns can be caused by hardware and/or
software in a various amount of different ways.
>
> Of course, hardware is the primary suspect starting with the CPU which I
> suspected might be overheating. However, all the fans are in working order
> and the lockups are not consistent with overheating. As I mentioned, the
> machine can run for as long as 48 hours before dying. Additionally, I have
> been able to occasionally reboot it immediately after locking up even
> though the computer had been running for many hours. I've run a number of
> hardware diagnostic utilities and all pronounce the system as healthy.
>
Although you state that the fans are in working order, that does't mean
much.
When is the last time you cleaned out the dust that accumulates?
Have you looked closely at the heatsink to make sure it is not clogged with
dust?
Are the fans clean of dust?
Is the mobo and any/all connectors on it clean of dust?
> There is one additional bit of information that might be a clue to
> brighter minds than mine: I have a stick of DDR 400 RAM (also 512k) that I
> used to replace the incumbent stick as a test. Every time I make the
> switch, regardless of the time lag before the freeze-up and the reboot
> (minutes or days), the PC successfully posts and begins to launch Windows.
> Unfortunately, Windows returns error messages about system files missing
> or corrupted. When I put the 333 RAM back and the reboot makes it past the
> post, Windows loads up just fine
If you only have one stick of RAM in the machine and replacing the 333
with the 400 doesn't degrade or improve your situation, most likely your RAM
is fine.
>
> It seems that the culprit is the RAM, but a few techs I've spoken to blame
> the motherboard. I'd like to give the DDR 400 RAM a shot to determine if
> it's RAM or motherboard that's bad, but don't understand why Windows won't
> load. Could the 400 RAM also be bad? Is it normal and customary for
> Windows to be so sensitive to different RAM? Would repair or re-install
> help with the 400 RAM?
Before blaming the motherboard or other components, take a look through
event viewer for any errors at the time of shutdown for any clue and/or a
possible resolution to the problem.
Click Start > Run, type in: eventvwr.msc and press Enter or click Ok.
Expand the event viewer window.
Click once on either Applications or System in the Left pane.
Double click on an error listed in the Right pane to bring up a details
window.
Click the link if present at the end of the description to a page with a
"possible solution". >> Stay informed about: Problems diagnosing system freezing |
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External
Since: Oct 17, 2008
Posts: 15
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:58 am
Post subject: Re: Problems diagnosing system freezing
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Casian Moscovici" wrote in message
> I have an older computer with a Pentium 4 chip, P4S8X ASUS motherboard
> and 512k of DDR 333 RAM. After many years of faithful and flawless
> service this senior citizen has begun freezing randomly. Sometimes I can
> immediately reboot it and it will run for as long as 48 hours before
> locking up again. On other occasions the reboot will not even get to the
> Post screen and I have to wait for minutes to hours before a successful
> reboot.
>
> Of course, hardware is the primary suspect starting with the CPU which I
> suspected might be overheating. However, all the fans are in working
> order and the lockups are not consistent with overheating. As I
> mentioned, the machine can run for as long as 48 hours before dying.
In my desktops over 25 years three power supply units failed. This
seems about average. In a specialist computer store, it takes less
than five minutes to test voltages of an old PSU or instal a new one. >> Stay informed about: Problems diagnosing system freezing |
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External
Since: Dec 7, 2008
Posts: 157
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:25 am
Post subject: Re: Problems diagnosing system freezing
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Casian
Make sure the computer is free of dust.Use an Air Duster to remove dust.
Overheating could be the problem.
Try Ctrl+Alt+Delete to select Task Manager and click the Performance
Tab. Under Commit Charge what is the Total, the Limit and the Peak?
Is the computer left on 24/7?
Have a look in the System and Application logs in Event Viewer for
Errors and Warnings and post copies here. Don't post any more than 48
hours ago.
You can access Event Viewer by selecting Start, Control Panel,
Administrative Tools, and Event Viewer. When researching the meaning
of the error, information regarding Event ID, Source and Description
are important.
HOW TO: View and Manage Event Logs in Event Viewer in Windows XP
[URL="http://support.microsoft.com/kb/308427/en-us"]http://support.microsoft.com/kb/308427/en-us[/URL]
A tip for posting copies of Error Reports! Run Event Viewer and double
click on the error you want to copy. In the window, which appears is a
button resembling two pages. Click the button and close Event
Viewer.Now start your message (email) and do a paste into the body of
the message. Make sure this is the first paste after exiting from
Event Viewer. >> Stay informed about: Problems diagnosing system freezing |
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External
Since: Dec 8, 2008
Posts: 51
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Problems diagnosing system freezing
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Andrew E. wrote:
> Either way 512mb of ram is a min. amount for xp,....
Another deliberate lie, Andrew? Why? At work, I have literally
hundreds of WinXP Pro machines ticking along quite happily on 512MB of RAM.
> ...768 or 1024mb will help.
Maybe, depending upon the applications in use. WinXP, in and of
itself, certainly doesn't need that. >> Stay informed about: Problems diagnosing system freezing |
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External
Since: Feb 4, 2009
Posts: 1
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:37 am
Post subject: Re: Problems diagnosing system freezing
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 20:55:58 -0500, Casian Moscovici wrote:
>I have an older computer with a Pentium 4 chip, P4S8X ASUS motherboard
>and 512k of DDR 333 RAM. After many years of faithful and flawless
>service this senior citizen has begun freezing randomly. Sometimes I can
>immediately reboot it and it will run for as long as 48 hours before
>locking up again. On other occasions the reboot will not even get to the
>Post screen and I have to wait for minutes to hours before a successful
>reboot.
>
>Of course, hardware is the primary suspect starting with the CPU which I
>suspected might be overheating. However, all the fans are in working
>order and the lockups are not consistent with overheating. As I
>mentioned, the machine can run for as long as 48 hours before dying.
>Additionally, I have been able to occasionally reboot it immediately
>after locking up even though the computer had been running for many
>hours. I've run a number of hardware diagnostic utilities and all
>pronounce the system as healthy.
>
>There is one additional bit of information that might be a clue to
>brighter minds than mine: I have a stick of DDR 400 RAM (also 512k) that
>I used to replace the incumbent stick as a test. Every time I make the
>switch, regardless of the time lag before the freeze-up and the reboot
>(minutes or days), the PC successfully posts and begins to launch
>Windows. Unfortunately, Windows returns error messages about system
>files missing or corrupted. When I put the 333 RAM back and the reboot
>makes it past the post, Windows loads up just fine.
>
>It seems that the culprit is the RAM, but a few techs I've spoken to
>blame the motherboard. I'd like to give the DDR 400 RAM a shot to
>determine if it's RAM or motherboard that's bad, but don't understand
>why Windows won't load. Could the 400 RAM also be bad? Is it normal and
>customary for Windows to be so sensitive to different RAM? Would repair
>or re-install help with the 400 RAM?
>
>Thanks for you help
>
>Casian
I would be very surprised if this problem was not being caused by bad capacitors.
Google "capacitor plague" and check that first.
Good luck,
NRJ >> Stay informed about: Problems diagnosing system freezing |
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